Energy Update: Speculation on the Cold Fusion Front

What is cold fusion as we understand it today? The answer is: “nobody really knows.”

It is certainly not nuclear fusion as we understand it because the transmutation of elements as described by those who purport to have developed cold fusion reactors defies the laws of physics. Once the quest of medieval alchemists, transmutation of the elements sought a way to convert dross metals like lead and turn them into gold. Well it didn’t work then and it doesn’t work today, that is, unless you compress two chemical elements with such force that they fuse to create a new element and emit elementary particles, gamma rays and a ton of heat. But that is not cold fusion. That’s what processes in the Sun do, and what a tokamak reactor does. And that’s the force behind hydrogen bombs.

But nothing to date quite explains the anomalous excess heat that appears to be the outcome of the chemistry that goes on in low-energy nuclear reactors or LEN-Rs, the newer term for what Pons and Fleischmann initially called cold fusion. When they first announced they had discovered anomalous heat in their experiment they were using deuterium (heavy water) and palladium. The interaction between these two was reported by them to be fusion although they found no evidence of fusion having actually occurred. There were no elementary particles discharged. And certainly no transmutation of deuterium to another element. What they observed was anomalous heat.

But if fusion were occurring what would it look like? Two deuterium atoms fusing together could become Tritium, Helium 3 or Helium 4. In all three cases elementary particles and gamma rays would be byproducts. But Pons and Fleischmann never detected any of these three elements, nor the elementary particles, just anomalous heat.




That takes us to Andrea Rossi, who I have written about on several occasions in the past. He is the developer of the E-Cat which he describes as a low energy nuclear reactor or LEN-R. He claims that in combining powdered nickel and hydrogen and introducing a secret catalyst that the output is transmutation to copper with anomalous heat as the byproduct.

Rossi is seen by many to be a fraud. Recent tests of his E-Cat however indicated net power output six times greater than input. How could that be? Well one thing we don’t know about Rossi’s device is what’s under the covers. He calls it a catalyst and has declared it an industrial trade secret. When he has attempted to file patents for the device, however, they have been rejected. And the recent independent testing that has verified anomalous heat output did not get a peak inside to see what physically is happening. Not only that the testers reported “that the device was already in operation when the trial began,” that observation cameras and sensors were placed by Rossi and not the independent team, and that elements introduced into the device were not weighed prior to the test. Does this suggest a bit of larceny? Perhaps! One thing we do know, Rossi’s claim that what is happening, the transmutation of nickel and hydrogen to copper and heat, is not possible under any current known physical laws.

But what Rossi is peddling is not the same as what Pons and Fleischmann detected. And that remains a mystery that to-date no single theory explains. A simple explanation may be that we are witnessing spontaneous combustion occurring when two chemical elements in the presence of a third generate a catalytic heat response. To date 66 different theories have been propounded to explain what Pons and Fleischmann observed. But one thing for sure as an article published in Forbes yesterday stated, we know there is anomalous heat but the term “cold fusion” needs to go away so that the alchemy and magic is finally removed from the equation.


Cold Fusion observed

Len Rosen lives in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. He is a researcher and writer who has a fascination with science and technology. He is married with a daughter who works in radio, and a miniature red poodle who is his daily companion on walks of discovery. More...


  • AlainCo

    It seems your data on recent e-cat test is influenced by the pamphlet by some Swedish scientist that try to muddy the water around (swedish, italian) colleagues working for Elforsk (the Swedish equivalent of US EPRI, ie a research consortium on electric industry).
    I know that Science is like politics, but it is hard to accept such misconduct, even on arxiv.

    About the claim that the reactor was start at the beginning it is true, but during an interview in Italian an Italian speaker reported:
    “Prof. Levi has been interviewed (in Italian) and reveals some new details about the testing:

    1) In the December test, it was actually the e-cat’s steel core containing the fuel that melted.
    2) The instruments used were not Rossi’s but that of the testers, and the instruments were completely under control of the testers.
    3) The testers actively tried to find hidden wires. They disconnected all wires and redid the wiring themselves. The ground line was disconnected by the testers to eliminate a variable because it was not used.

    provided the testers have control on the instruments and the wiring, there are no reasonable hypothesis of fraud that hold.

    the pamphlet of Ericson & Pomp, just by it’s style and the opening of the paper, plus the incompetence in thermography, the data not read in the report, should be put in the conspiracy theories list…
    Bo Hoistad in ibtimes interview doesn’t says less… It is a bit shocking that pretended scientist behave that way… yet not uncommon…

    anyway the situation is much more wide than what is presented her. It is a bit surprising that you are not aware of Defkalion (and his 3rd party report by Nelson), Brillouin (and it’s SRI test), Etiam Oy, Lenuco, NASA & Doug Wells plane project, ex-SPAWAR Pamm Boss working for Uni Tsinghua…

    I have made an executive summary, but the subject is very wide

    it is in industrial development, and far from a scientific debate.
    I know that some LENR scientist are under siege of business friends…
    People who want to understand should read Thomas Kuhn, Roland Benabou, Nassim Nicholas Taleb, and the real history of Wright brothers. there are many keys…

    the skeptics should contact Defkalion Europe to confirm the demo in Milano, next week for ICCF18 opening at Uni Missouri.
    NI boss will present a keynote at ICCF18, but sadly it seems NIWeek2013 won’t host LENR session, unlike NIWeek2012…

    best regards.

    AlainCo — the techwatcher of

    • lenrosen4

      There is no topic I write about that doesn’t get the dander up on people like a discussion on LEN-R. I read the report issued by those who independently tested the E-Cat. I read Pons and Fleischmann’s papers on cold fusion. If I got it wrong they got it wrong.

    • lenrosen4

      Also, I’m still waiting to see when Defkalion will become real. How many years does it take to launch a stable product that supposed will revolutionize the energy industry?

      • maryyugo

        Espcially when you claim on your own forum, as Defkalion did in mid 2011, that you have already built dozens of stable, working, 10+ kW reactors which are being continuously run and tested! And that (April 2013) seven major industrial companies have tested these. Of course none has come forward. And no reactor has ever had independent testing. And Hadjichristos, a Defkalion principal, does not answer polite questions on other forums after Defkalion totally deleted theirs, about a year ago. Can you say “most likely an investment fraud”?

        Note: a video is not an independent test. So don’t expect much of anything from Defkalion in the coming weeks.

        And what Nelson did, using Defkalion’s premises, their equipment and their power source is ALSO NOT AN INDEPENDENT TEST! What is it about “independent” that these True Believer like AlainCo don’t get?

      • Axil

        Officially confirmed.

        Roberta De Carolis (Tuesday, 16 July 2013 12:28).
        The CEO of Defkalion Europe Franco Cappiello wrote to us:
        “There will be an official announcement of this technology during ICCF 18 (International Conference Cold Fusion 18) at the University of Missouri (USA). For those interested you can see this webcast of all phases of the experiment , ignition, performance and switching off. Two independent scientists and two science journalists at international level will participate in this broadcast, as well as a member of the Cicap. ”

        • maryyugo

          CICAP normally investigates the paranormal! Maybe Defkalion’s reactor is powered by a ghost? Maybe Rossi’s ecat would work better after an exorcism?

          • RGCheek

            More of ‘Mary Yugo’s half truths and lies.
            CICAP (Comitato Italiano per il Controllo delle Affermazioni sul Paranormale; in English Italian Committee for the Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal) is an Italian, non-profit, skeptic organization, founded in 1989. CICAP’s main goals are the promotion of the scientific analysis of alleged paranormal phenomena. It is a member of the European Council of Skeptical Organizations.

            These are the kinds of people that specialize in investigaeting cons, ‘magic tricks’, and other forms of professional deception. They are the people that can figure out cons that scientists tend to miss (due to scientists not being con artists or magicians).

            Mary Yuog is notorious for her constant smears, lies and distortions of fact when it comes to LENR topics.

          • AlainCo

            after reflection there are good experience with skeptical society and alike:
            - Essen was former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society, and now he test E-cat with positive results
            - Robert Duncan (Vice Chancellor for Research in Uni Missouri) have been paid by CNBC to debunk the LENR claims of Energetics Technology… finally today he host the ICCF18 in Uni Missouri…
            - Dawn Dominguez of NRL explained that she started LENR experiments to prove their were erroneous…
            - same for Celani…

            — FYI
            “Professor Kullander is professor emeritus of High Energy Physics at Uppsala University. Kullander received his doctorate from Uppsala University in 1971. Since 1990, Kullander has been a member of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences and chairman of its Energy Committee

            Hanno Essén is an associate professor of theoretical physics and a lecturer at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology and former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society”

            others CV on

  • maryyugo

    Rossi changes his story all the time. His latest patent application doesn’t mention a catalyst. There is nothing “indipendent” (Rossi’s spelling) about the latest tests. The chief investigator was Rossi’s close friend and associate Giuseppi Levi who botched many previous tests and Swedist scientist Essen who also screwed up prior measurements was second in command. The equipment used was the same as in the Penon test which was signed off by Rossi. It was probably Rossi’s or identical instruments. The method was Rossi’s and the power supply was provided only by Rossi. It was not properly checked by the experimenters. The so-called independent test is a joke.

    Rossi has never has an independent test. His claims are almost certainly an investment scam as is also most likely true of Defkalion’s. Both of these have had more than two years to do a proper test by a government lab or a university. Neither has. Neither has revealed a single customer. They are not credible.

    • lenrosen4

      I am in agreement with you that Rossi chooses to look like he is hiding something. He is his own worst enemy.

      I have repeatedly suggested he just open his technology to the world and license it to as many third parties as possible.

      If he cannot get a patent then as marketers say, get it into the market and that will give you legitimacy and a head start on everybody who follows.

      • maryyugo

        Actually, if the ecat worked, God himself could not prevent Rossi from getting a patent. And just filing a proper application would protect him. Important to note: Rossi has never filed a proper patent application. The ones he filed do not contain enough disclosure to come anywhere close to getting a patent. That is typical of investment frauds.

      • RGCheek

        Rossi IS HIDING SOMETHING; an industrial trade secret.

        Sheesh, he is not trying to advance science, but trying to get a product to market that is safe, efficient and meets the various safety standards for dozens of nations across the globe.

        Do you think that is a simplke thing while still protecting your trade secret because patent offices shy away from p[atenting anything with the phrase ‘cold fusion’ in it? lol

        • maryyugo


          Good job demonstrating that you have not the faintest clue about how patents work.

          • AlainCo

            In fact I have discussedwwith a friend who have been stollen a patent, and who know how to get around it.
            In “La fusion dans tout ses états” by JP Biberian, he explain how his idea have been stollen by CEA, but also how he could get around to file an enhancement that get priority on CEA.
            the story of SmartCard by Roland Morenon is full of similar stories with Bull trying to get around his patent.

            Patent or trade secret is a question of taste.

            Trade secret is also needed whenever there is no secret but previous work found in old scientific papers that were sadly ignored. LENR is full of such papers.

            finally that rossi is crazy and incompetent in IP is not an evidence of fraud…
            It is typical of great inventor like Edison and Tesla to be irresponsible, stupid, nasty or dishonest…

            What does not lie is calorimetry, electricity, and game theory…

            the fact is that the only way to fraud the measurement was through DC, and this could be easily measured, so it cannot be the key of a fraud.

            anyway given the incredulity, I understand that Rossi will soon organize a better test, where that can be ruled out… of sure not in a spy-open place, so it won’t please you.

            all the others suspicion you advance like 2 Swedish physicist who wrote a conspiracy pamphlet, are simply sign of incompetence in calorimetry, in electricity, and in game theory, plus a total lack of ethic and rationality.

    • AlainCo

      Defkalion reactor have been tested independently by Nelson.
      This NASA employee, working for an NGO, have been know for bashing Rossi for his previous too restricte test protocols. The recent open test is the answers to your demands.

      Of course as usual it is not enough, and it will never be.

      As usual you deform facts, and project you beliefs as the facts.

      • maryyugo

        Nelson tested nothing. According to his own report, he watched a dog and pony show by Defkalion. He did not know where the power supplied to the system came from, he did not use his own instruments, and he did not decide on the measurement methods. He was simply an observer and not a particularly clever one at that.

        • AlainCo

          false, he run the test himself and had access to the device… he could even open it.
          please stop lying to the innocent around.
          This was not a perfect test, but it is enough.
          Nelson made an exece summary whe he say he is pleased by cooperation. All he asked was given. He made control tests.
          He checked the calorimetry and the electric consumption with blank test, and separate dummy test.

          E-cat test was much better I agree…
          and it cannot please you, nothing can…

        • AlainCo

          for the curious the report, confirmed by Nelson to Gibbs (of Forbes, a moderate skeptic),
          is an attachement in that message

          of course it is not very clean, but the fact that Nelson is happy have more value that analysis by hypercritical conspiracy theorist who were not there.

          • maryyugo

            Nelson’s demo not very clean? How about completely incompetent? And not one bit independent.

            No test done in a claimant’s lab, using their power source and their measuring method and equipment is independent. What about that do you not understand, Alain? It’s been explained to you again and again. Under the venues and conditions imposed by Rossi and Defkalion, all sorts of frauds and tricks are not only possible but likely.

            The only credible test is one done using the device as a black box. It must be done by a reputable and credible major test organization, government lab or university department. It must be done in *their* facility using their choice of measuring methods, their power source, and their measuring equipment.

            It says volumes that neither Rossi nor Defkalion has allowed that in over two years of making extravagant claims to kilowatts of power. Those claims are not in the least credible.

  • Niccolo5

    ((But nothing to date quite explains the anomalous excess heat that appears to be the outcome of the chemistry that goes on in low-energy nuclear reactors or LEN-Rs, the newer term for what Pons and Fleischmann initially called cold fusion.))

    Truth is, nothing to date satisfies scientific rigor that any significant “anomolous” heat has ever been produced with any sort of “LENR”. All the claims and tests have large and glaring possibilities for false results..Hope I’m wrong, but everything I’ve seen suggests there is no anomalous excess heat to explain.

    • lenrosen4

      I am less certain than you about the anomalous heat. All I know is that whatever has been observed is certainly not nuclear.

      • Axil

        Initiation of nuclear reactions under laser irradiation of Au nanoparticles in the aqueous solution of Uranium salt

        A.V. Simakin and G.A. Shafeev

        lenrosen4: “All I know is that whatever has been observed is certainly not nuclear.”

        If you think that the production of U238 fission products by transmutation in a LENR reaction is not nuclear, then you are in the wrong line of work, Please educate yourself.

        • lenrosen4

          In this paper you are using laser irradiation. What is the net energy yield of the device after you factor in energy input? How does this compare to E-Cat technology from Andrea Rossi? The conclusions are interesting:

          “Further interpretation of the observed results on laser initiation of nuclear reactions cannot be performed on the basis of known phenomena. It seems that the gases dis
          solved in Au NPs provide the particles that further induce the nuclear reactions. The mechanism of the formation of these particles, most probably neutrons, remains unknown so far. However, the present results allow the conclusion that the energy spectrum of these neutrons depends on the number of experimental parameters, such as the nature of the aqueous environment, laser wavelength, peak power of laser radiation, etc.”

          Interpret this for me. Is this the same as what Pons & Fleischmann reported? Or are we dealing with different phenomena? And again, what is the measurable output and can this be turned into something commercial for energy generation? After all isn’t this the point of all of this discussion related to “cold fusion?”

          • Axil

            In another nanoplasmonic experiment as follow:


            Laser-induced synthesis and decay of Tritium under exposure of solid targets in heavy water

            There is an area a science where orthodox science gradually descends into pseudoscience as the power that activates the induced nuclear reaction decreases.

            Recent theoretical work shows the capability of laser radiation to directly excite nuclear levels of energy. However, exciting a nuclear transition would require an X-ray or gamma-ray lasers with an intensity greater than 10^^20 Watts/cm2.

            When asked, most scientists would consider this type of laser experiment to be included in the realm of authentic science. This type of experiment is reproducible, easy to analyze, and dependable.

            However, when laser irradiation is combined with nanoparticles suspended in a liquid (colloidal solution) the activation level of the nuclear reaction drops to a peak laser intensity levels ranging between 10^^10 W/cm2 to 10^^13 W/cm2. This low level of reaction stimulation is orders of magnitude below the level that is going on in a Ni/H reactor which is at least 10^^15 W/cm2 between nanoparticles.

            So pseudoscience is determined by the EMF power level of the activation of the nuclear reaction. If logic is used in scientific thinking, the definition of valid science can be precisely quantified by the power level of the activation of the nuclear reaction.

            Science has a strange way of thinking.

          • Axil

            “Further interpretation of the observed results on laser initiation of nuclear reactions cannot be performed on the basis of known phenomena.”

            They had t5o say this to avoid the out-of-hand rejection of this paper. If they said that the results were cold fusion, then it would be all over after the word “cold fusion” was read.

            All cold fusion is produced by the action of nano-particles and/or nanocavities. A nanoantenna must be present to concentrate EMF in every manifestation of cold fusion including the Pons & Fleischmann experiment, exploding foils, transmutation, production of neutrons and gamma radiation in lightning and electric discharge, anomalous nuclear reaction in space, and cavatation… a single causation for all instances.

            If you understand Nanoplasmonics, you will be well on your way to understanding cold fusion.

  • D R Lunsford

    You more or less got everything wrong. Sigh.


    • lenrosen4

      Please explain what I got wrong and I’ll happily revise my copy. You can email me at

      • maryyugo

        Don’t worry, Lunsford is unlikely to answer you. He prefers to hit and run than to get into any discussion of the issues about Rossi and Defkalion. Interestingly, same with Joe Shea (editor of the American Reporter) and Hadjichristos (an executive at Defkalion). They won’t argue their cases. They seem to prefer spouting off to acolytes. As for Rossi, he only responds on his blog and he censors the living daylights out of it. That should tell you a lot.

  • Axil

    I request that you upgrade your experimental LENR example evidence and associated knowledge base to more modern nanoplasmoinc based material as follows:

    Laser-induced synthesis and decay of Tritium under exposure of solid targets in heavy water


    E.V. Barmina1, P.G. Kuzmin1, S.F. Timashev, and G.A. Shafeev

    Your are far behinds the times in terms of LENR theory.

    • lenrosen4

      Hi, I just quoted a study that showed 66 different theories for explaining anomalous heat created by LEN-R experiments. I’ll be happy to add another to the pile and welcome learning more. Please feel free to write me at or

  • Frank Znidarsic

    I did my research and wrote a book about cold fusion.
    “Energy, Cold Fusion, and Antigravity”
    It’s available and Amazon and Barns and Noble

  • AlainCo

    It seems that globally most people, especially scientist, are unaware of the corpus of experiments.
    the paper about laser inducer LENR is an uncommon result, and the classic results of electrolysis, plasma electrolysis, gas permeation, nanoparticle, is much enough to convince anyone informed and honest, this mean few people in the real world.

    I notice that nobody read what I link, and that is common… Thomas Kuhn explain well why. “normal science” is by design blind to anomalies.

    The fact that some LENR scientists and supporters focus on the most funny part, theories, and strange result, make conservative people (like me) feel uncomfortable.

    The problem is that the few rational people, like engineers, are upset by crazy theories and mau flee before being informed.
    Most “normal scientist” (according to Thomas Kuhn) refuse to consider anything before there is a theory… and there is none that work, whatever the LENR enthusiast says. Like fire when it was discovered, there is no theory.

    It seems that facing such anomalies, most of scientist deny the facts (frauds, errors, despite massive replications and variations), and few others cannot survive without a theory and try to push disruptive theories before developing the experimental results.
    It is not a surprise that breakthrough came from engineers, and from few experimentalist

    anyway if you track all what happen and have happened, situation is clear.
    No critics against LENR is serious (the most proeminent, should be laughable and would justify removing PhD diploma to some), and evidence todays let no doubt.

    BTW I remind that “there is no theory” is not an argument.
    Even if you assume that QM and TD are constitutional law The “we don’t find a scenario in our QM theory” is not an argument, as long as TD1/2/3, QM charge conservation, Heisenberg inequality can be respected (and nothings prove it is not respected – most critics are based on hidden assumption like 2-body and freespace)…

    I’ve made a article on those points:

    but I know it is hopeless to convince, because in real like Scientific Method is not respected , especially in top physics. Lower (practitioners/industrial) science like electro-chemistry had no problem to admit LENR, but they get bullied enough to pretend agreement with the consensus.

    the wikipedia article that I cite inside the article (which was removed) is enough clear to prove that scientific method is not respected by consensual position.

    this is why all will be done by greedy industrialists, and proven by clients.
    This is a key point of Antifragile book by nassim Nicholas taleb… (chapter: lecturing birds to fly, history being written by the losers).

    Roland Benabou in his model of groupthink explain that such a pathologic consensual denial is maintained by multiple effects.
    All is based on the fact that people optimise their estimation of their wealth (money, self-esteem,pride), and not the reality. So they must rationally ignore facts.

    The subordinates follow the groupthink because they have no capacity to change the things, and knowing the reality, will only make them feel poorer without any capability to escape.
    Some freemind may have access to the data, but being others not reacting they will feel that they are wrong. (I heard that often, as : if you are right, why does important people don’t jump!)
    there is also a tendency when the reality is approaching that the deniers get more and more violent against dissenters which put their self-estimation in danger. they call for budget cancellation, for laws against dissenters, for public ban… in fact they protect their illusion…
    this bullying may push some realist to rationally pretend to be consensual, just to avoid the violence, while they cannot escape… Some realist may simply enjoy the delusion and take the money where it is… but to maintain self-esteem most accomplice realists in fact lie to themselves, pretending they share the consensual view, and finally they fall into the delusion, just to keep confort, self esteem, and good wealth estimation.

    this is why as I say, SciAm will discover LENR in Wall-Street Journal (like they discovered plane).

    and MIT/harwell/Caltech will invent LENR in 2015, despite the fringe inventors that prevented them to discovers the reality.. ;-> (history written by the losers).

    all is classic.

    • maryyugo

      Complete nonsense, Alain. Please show us a single customer from Rossi. A single major “world class” company which properly tested Defkalion’s Hyperion.

      • AlainCo

        What is the relation between the customer of rossi and what I say?

        Please explain me the interview of Aldo Proia, a project manager for solar project at Energaya, who jumped into LENR startup Prometeon ? explain his public support in media about Rossi ?

  • AlainCo

    What is the relation between the customer of rossi and what I say?

    Please explain me the interview of Aldo Proia, a project manager for solar project at Energaya, who jumped into LENR startup Prometeon ? explain his public support in media about Rossi ?

    tell me why Alexandros Xanthoulis, an economist living in Vancouver, and few tycoon, would have founded a scam, and would maintain it for so long, without asking money…

    All that is conspiracy theory … more improbable than Apollo conspiracies.

    stop trying to fool the uninformed people with unfounded FUD.
    I know that it is more comfortable for most people to believe that all of that is false, but when you dig honestly it is clear that your conspiracy theory does not hold 5 second.

    People who want to know what is happening have to work long, and to bypass your FUD.

    • maryyugo

      Alain, you throw out more fluff than I can deal with. How would I know why Proia or Xanthoulis support Rossi and Defkalion respectively? Maybe they’ve been fooled or maybe they’re crooks. Are they going to tell us wich?

      But I do need to correct the favorite bit of nonsense from True Believers that Rossi and Defkalion don’t solicit investor funds. Rossi got lots of money from Ampenergo. They said so in an NyTeknik interview a couple of years ago. I can’t help it if you don’t read enough and don’t seem to know. Roger Green in Australia and the Schneiders in Germany and lord knows who else, have also gotten money from Rossi. The story that he sold his house to fund his work is bullcrap. Rossi has a home — a condo in Miami, Florida.

      As recently as a year or so ago, Defkalion enlisted James Dunn, formerly with NASA, to plead and beg Dick Smith, the Australian billionaire, for a million dollar investment. The idea that these people use their own money is beyond ridiculous.

      • maryyugo

        oops. “Roger Green in Australia and the Schneiders in Germany and lord knows who else, have also gotten money from Rossi. ” should have read “…have also gotten money *FOR* Rossi.”

        Sorry about that.

  • Roget Daltrie

    “Computed volumetric and gravimetric energy densities were found to be far above those of any
    known chemical source. Even by the most conservative assumptions as to the errors in the
    measurements, the result is still one order of magnitude greater than conventional energy sources.”

    From the abstract of the independent study of the E-Cat-HT by seven authoring scientists and a team of another ten scientists, engineers, and technicians. Alain’s comments are most accurate.

  • tyy

    If all this LENR hype were true, it would be worderfull.

    Also, if LENR would be real, all these dozens of websites dedicated to this new worderfull thing would be useless.

  • Vítor Nunes

    The secret catalyst it is a high frequences current, ~ 5 THZ with H2 convert nickel in cooper